Balancing ambition episode 3: full transcript

Read the full transcript of episode 3 of the Balancing ambition podcast below. To listen or watch this episode, click here.

Our host: Zoe Smith, AAT 
Our guests: Louise Thompson, leadership coach, and Emily Orchard-Pain, AATQB, bookkeeper, AAT Level 3 student and founder of The AAT Mums Community. 
Synopsis: From being transparent and following through on commitments to handling difficult conversations well, small behaviours can have a big impact on how colleagues and others see us. Our expert guests discuss how finance professionals can strengthen trust, improve working relationships and create better outcomes for the people they work with. 

Zoe: Today’s episode is all about trust: how we build it with clients, colleagues and our wider communities, and why it matters so much in the workplace. 

Trust has always been important in finance and accountancy, but as technology evolves, workplaces become more hybrid and economic pressures continue to grow, trust and professional integrity feel more important than ever. 

Whether it’s how we communicate, how we behave under pressure, or how consistently we show up for others, trust is something that is built over time through everyday actions. 

So today we’ll be exploring not only why trust matters, but also the practical ways we can build it, maintain it, and rebuild it when challenges arise. 

Now, at the top of every episode, we always ask our guests to share with us one ambition. 

So, something personal or professional, big or small, that you’re hoping to achieve over the next 12 months. 

If I can start with you, because I know that you’ve had quite a good success already, just recently, with your AAT exam? 

Emily: I passed my first level three exam last Sunday. 

Zoe: Fantastic. Congratulations. 

Emily: Thank you. It was Preparing Financial Statements, which is like the level three module that everyone’s like “Have you done FAPS yet?”. 

So yeah, it feels really good to have that one under my belt.  

Zoe: Excellent. Well done. 

Emily: So yeah, that’s my first ambition for the next year. I’ve set myself a target of 

I’d like to get to the end of level three, if I can, before the new level four syllabus starts in September, and then hopefully move on to level four. 

And yeah, just in the spirit of balancing ambition, my eldest daughter is starting secondary school in September, so I want to just be a really good mum for her in that transition, be there for her, be as present as I can whilst balancing my own ambition and pushing myself forward. 

I guess the big one for the next year is to keep flying the flag for AAT mums who are studying and juggling everything. You mentioned the community: we’ve got a group of about 50 of us now and that’s turning into a really supportive group. 

So, I’d like to see what I can do with the AAT and fly that flag a bit more and make sure the resources and support are there for people who are trying to study alongside work and juggling family life. 

Zoe: So love that. I think that’s wonderful.  

When I was studying my AAT, I was a single mum of three children, and actually the group of ladies that we had in our class, it was so important to have that community. There were only four of us. I haven’t got to the 50 that you achieved, but I think it’s definitely something that you need around you and it helps you on that journey. So I think that’s lovely. 

Emily: Yeah, definitely. I think having spoken to the group about whether we do something on a bigger platform, but actually they like the small size of it. It feels like a safe space to ask questions and answer questions and go for support and celebrate those wins. 

So yeah, it’s really important to have that community around you. 

Zoe:  I think it’s a beautiful thing you’ve done. Really lovely, well done. 

And Louise, for you? 

Louise: I don’t know if I can live up to what Emily’s just said. It was amazing. 

We had a good chat before because my daughter has just nearly finished her first year at high school, so she’s a year older, and that’s been a big transition. But that was last year. 

This year I think my ambition is, well, I’m turning 50 in November. So, my ambition is just to make this the best year I can possibly have. Lots of things planned, lots of holidays, lots of exciting work stuff. 

Just saying yes to more things has been something that I’ve really embraced this year. 

Just came back from the Harry Styles concert in Amsterdam. Which was a great example of me saying yes to something with my daughter. 

But I think, I think that’s my aim for this year. Say yes to things, be open and explore what the next 50 years hopefully have to offer for me. 

Zoe: Wonderful. Maybe we should do some joint things. I turn 50 in January. 

Louise: Oh, okay yes.  

Zoe: Yeah, yeah, we’ll get the tick list of things to do!  

Louise: Paris is on the agenda.  

Zoe: No, that’s really lovely to hear. Thank you so much. 

So back to our topic of trust then for today. 

Why is it that you would say ethics is so important when we’re working in accountancy and finance? It’s always been important: but obviously as things are changing even more now, like we said at the beginning, with, you know, working from home a lot more and things like that. Why do you think that it’s maybe even more important? 

Emily: Should I take that one?  

I think AAT is based on the code of ethics for good reason. It has to be the foundation of everything.  

You know, you represent yourself and other accountants and every AAT member. So you have to be demonstrating those behaviours of professional integrity and approaching things ethically. 

I think for me, as a bookkeeper day to day, you know, I’m working with clients and you’re in receipt of quite personal information, you know, from identity documents to receipts to seeing how they spend their money in their bank statements. 

So, it’s really important that clients can look to us and trust you to act responsibly. Otherwise you can’t do your job very well. 

Louise: And I speak as a non-accountant by background. I’m a leadership coach. But I think the similarity is my clients trust me and there is a code of ethics for the very same reason. 

And I think in accountancy, you know, aside from healthcare, there aren’t many other professions where you are actually entrusted with so much personal data, but also one of the most important things for anybody, which is their financial well-being. It is massively important.  

So trust plays a huge role in that relationship because you need to be able to trust the people with one of your most precious assets. 

Zoe: Absolutely. Do you think that with the way that we have more AI, working from home, and maybe not being seen so much by our employees, is trust harder to build in more recent years? 

Louise: I mean, I would say definitely yes.  

So, there’s a really interesting study, by the way, done by the big PR firm Edelman. Every year they do something called the Trust Barometer, which looks at levels of trust that consumers and employees have in the organisations that shape our world. 

So political organisations, businesses, our employers:  levels of trust are very, very low. But they identified it goes beyond that to people actually feeling a sense of grievance about the lack of trust they have. 

So, I think absolutely, we are living in a world where trust isn’t there. There aren’t high levels of trust in the organisations that we work in, or work for, or that work for us, like politicians. 

And I think with things like AI, it’s obviously making it much more challenging because you need to know where your sources are coming from, and that adds to trust or distrust as well. 

Can I really trust this information? I already know that perhaps I can’t trust the people in charge as much as I would like, and now there’s lots of information being thrown at me as well. Where do I trust? You know, this information is coming from and where do I draw the line in terms of what I believe and what I know?  

It’s really difficult. 

Zoe: It is very challenging. Yeah. 

Emily: I think just to extend on that point. I kind of see it happening in the practice that I work with, we’ll maybe advise someone of something, and they’ll come back and be like, oh, but I put it into ChatGPT and it said this. 

So, like Louise said, just being conscious of where we’re placing our trust as a business owner. And then on the other side of that, having to field those questions and yeah, how to how to deal with that, just being conscious of where we’re putting that trust. 

Louise: How do you handle that when that happens? 

Emily: I think just you would hope by that point you’ve built up a bit of a relationship and trust.  

Perhaps if it’s a newer client that can be quite difficult to counter, but just trying to be clear and letting them know where you’ve got your information from and how you know this, and unless you’ve been very specific with that prompt: I know I put a lot of things into AI and it will assume I’m in America. 

Potentially somebody asked it something and it’s given it an answer based on an American tax system, and that’s entirely different to what we’ve got. So yeah, just trying to understand what information they’ve been given, explain why that may or may not be correct. 

Louise: But again, that trust must come into it, as it does for me as a coach. Is there trust in the relationship that your client has with you and vice versa? And that’s so, so important, isn’t it? 

In that day-to-day relationship building, you’ve got to be able to build that trust because there is so much information out there that is accessible to people, whether it’s correct information or accurate or not almost doesn’t matter to the individual. 

And it’s then about: well, do I have trust in the relationship, with the person that I am engaging with in these services and paying for these services from? 

Zoe:  I think that’s a really interesting point. So, what are those small behaviours then that can help you to be able to build that trust with that client and with that customer? So you’ve got that established in the relationship. 

Louise: One of the big things for me, and I think this is actually really challenging in 2026, is to put your phone, put your laptop down and whether it’s…you might be on Zoom but you might be face to face like we are now, is actually giving somebody your full attention. 

I think the art of attention, it’s gone. It’s a lost art. But there is nothing better in terms of forming a relationship where there is trust for somebody to actually sit in front of you. Eye contact, full attention, nothing else distracting them. 

I used to work in the corporate world myself, and I found it really difficult when I had one to ones with my manager, let’s say, where they had one eye on the screen or one eye on the phone, and then half-listening to me, I was like, this is my time. Do I not deserve some of your attention for ten minutes? 

But it is really difficult in the world that we live in today to kind of do that and give that. 

So I think if you can work on your relationships, your professional relationships, and think about: does this person or does this client, does this partner, does this colleague deserve my attention? The answer is yes. Okay. So how can I give it to them? 

Zoe: Yeah, I think that’s an excellent, excellent example and something that everybody can take away, can’t they? Because just giving somebody eye contact doesn’t take very much. But it has such a good impact on that relationship. 

Louise: It’s not the easiest. And I think when you’re perhaps starting out in your professional career as well, these are the things that I always think as the work I do in leadership coaching. No one really tells you these things. 

No, they don’t tell you them, which is what we’re doing today. They’re really important to building professional relationships. 

So yes, I think we should share more about these common sense things that seem common sense to us, but maybe not if you are starting out in your career. 

Zoe: What are your behaviours and things that you do to be able to develop that relationship? 

Emily: I think still being quite new, I’m sort of learning out loud and studying, I put content out about studying at work. 

So, I think it’s trust isn’t necessarily built in knowing everything all the time. I think there’s a lot to be gained from actually, you know, “I’m not sure the answer of that question, but I’m going to find out and I will get back to you”. And actually, people are okay with that.  

The trust is gained in doing what you then say you will. 

Hopefully then you build a reputation as someone that, you know, Emily’s learning, she’s still new, but she doesn’t know something, she’s going to go and ask the question or do the research and find out, and she’s going to get back to me and give me the right information, rather than potentially feeling like you need to look like you know everything and maybe saying something and getting it wrong, and then it turns out wrong and you’ve sort of lost their trust somewhere along the way. 

As a recovering perfectionist, that’s something that I’m trying to learn, actually. It’s okay not knowing everything all the time and being honest about that. Can go a long way as well. 

Zoe: Yeah, definitely. And so what do you think you can do? 

What are the things that can happen in a client relationship that can damage trust. Because you’ve sort of mentioned it a little bit there. What are the other kind of things that can happen that could damage trust without us even realising it? 

Emily: I think going back to people when they’re expecting you to, managing those expectations, making sure that clients have an understanding of what to expect from you. You have an understanding of what to expect from them, and that will hopefully avoid those situations where trust can be damaged. 

Being honest, if there’s been a mistake and I was going to say something else and it’s totally fallen out of me.  

Zoe: I think they’re great points. And I think just putting this into context for some of our students that work more in industry, in finance, that those clients may be the customers within the other departments that they had to provide it for. 

And so that sort of runs true as well, doesn’t it, for them making sure that they’re giving that information when they need to and building that trust between the teams as well. 

So for all of our listeners, yes, as well, we’re thinking about here. 

What would you say, Louise, about how there are certain things that we can do without even realising it, that can have a detrimental effect on the trust that we’ve built up?  

Louise: I mean, Emily’s made some really, really good points. I think that gap between what we say we will do and what we end up doing is one of the biggest gaps in terms of lack of trust and lack of credibility, because people can see right through it. 

And I worked in corporate for a long, long time, and I think that’s one of the biggest complaints people have about the corporate world and about corporate leadership is well they say one thing, but they don’t follow through or then they do another. 

So it’s actually a really challenging thing to think about as an individual. How can I narrow or close that gap between what I say and what I do? 

And I really do have to be mindful about that, because otherwise, as Emily said, you’ve got relationships.  

Maybe it’s with clients, maybe it’s in-house with other teams. You’ve got relationships there that aren’t built on trust and credibility and consistency. So unfortunately, you might be brilliant at what you do. You will gain that reputation for perhaps not always delivering on what you say you will. 

I think that’s one of the most important things you can think about. 

Zoe: Yeah, definitely. I think that’s a great tip. 

And so when sometimes things do arise: you have let somebody down, you haven’t got back to them on time, there’s been misunderstandings, or something has happened that has damaged the trust.  

What is it that individuals can do to then try and regain that and build that back up again? How is the best approach? 

Louise: I think honesty. That’s what Emily said earlier. Honesty and transparency. 

These seem like basic fundamentals, but actually when you’re working, when everything’s so busy, when people are throwing tasks at you, you might be a recovering perfectionist or people pleaser. Add that into the mix. There is actually there’s a lot going on. 

That means you may have the best of intentions, but it may not always follow through because things happen and we’re all human beings. We’re not perfect. We’re not robots yet. So when that happens, it’s about being honest and transparent. 

If you’ve made a mistake, say so. Say what you’re going to do to fix it. If you can, fix it. If you can’t fix it, be equally as honest and upfront about the fact that can’t be fixed, perhaps in the way that you might need it to or want it to be. However, what I can do is this. 

So make it timely. Be honest. Transparent. 

Again, it feels fundamental, but in the thick of working with stress, with pressures, it’s difficult to remember that sometimes. But that is really the best approach. 

Zoe: And I think probably all of us accept the fact that it’s hard sometimes to be able to accept when you’ve made a mistake or to be able to say sorry but it’s so important to do, isn’t it? 

It was one of the things my dad used to say that to me all the time as a child. So, you know, you’ve had to learn. Yeah. It’s okay to be wrong to be wrong. So try and say sorry, Zoe. 

But yeah, it is something, I think that we have to make sure that if we do that and take that accountability, that’s the bit that goes a long way, doesn’t it. 

Anything else you’d like to add to Emily? 

Emily: Exactly what Louise said. You know, just owning it. And that can feel quite vulnerable and scary. 

Like, particularly, I know for me, I’m still learning. So I’m sort of up and down with like, oh, yeah, I can do this and I can’t do this. And then that can take quite a knock to your confidence if you make a mistake. But actually the best thing is owning it. 

Like Louise said, let them know how you’re going to fix it. Do the best you can, and then just start to rebuild that trust again when something doesn’t quite go right, try and just reframe that thinking around it.  

It’s a learning opportunity and you know, it’s not going to happen again. 

Zoe: And thinking before about the fact that, trust isn’t built through one big thing that happens, it’s those small things that you do on a daily basis that helps to build that. 

So what are some of those smaller behaviours that people could do, particularly for students that are maybe in a work placement or just starting out in their apprenticeship in their careers? 

What are the things that they can do to have that positive impression on their employers? 

Louise: This is going to sound really boring. 

Zoe:  I love boring because boring means straightforward and simple.  

Louise: Boring usually means it works. Yeah, consistency is everything. 

So it is about layering those micro behaviours, those intentions, those commitments, their insight, all of those things that go into building trust. You have to do it consistently. 

Because when that is compounded over time, that’s how you are going to build a professional reputation as somebody that can be trusted, even if you may make a mistake from time to time. 

Because again, we’re all human. But if you can own that mistake and recover and crucially, learn from it so you don’t make the same mistake again, you will be able to kind of grow that reputation. 

It’s really difficult to have a reputation built on, like shifting sands. 

So, you know, if you’re one person, one day, another person the next, you promise something, but you don’t deliver, people aren’t going to they’re not going to know which version of you is going to turn up. 

And that’s really difficult in a professional environment because we need and expect consistency in terms of behaviours and commitments from our colleagues, and that’s part of mutual respect, I think, as well in the workplace, is you need to be able to expect that you can rely on me, that I’ll do things when I say I’ll do them, and vice versa as well. 

Zoe: Yeah, that’s so true, so true. 

And it’s something that for the students, they can take that on, can’t they? They can start to do those things, put it into practice and then that’s going to help build that relationship with their employer. 

Louise: You know, one thing – I actually was thinking about this – one thing I think that a lot of very seasoned professionals find very difficult. 

I think at the beginning of your placement or as a student, I think it is even more challenging either saying no or asking good questions of somebody that wants or needs you to do something, because often what happens is we don’t want to say no.  

We don’t want to say, “I don’t know how to do that yet.” We don’t want to say, “I’ve got too much on today, I can’t do that for you.” 

So we say yes, and then maybe we don’t deliver it because we don’t know what we’re doing, or we’ve got too much on to meet the deadline. 

And then the trust is eroded. Not because we went into it with bad intentions, but we felt overwhelmed and senior person was asking us to do this thing. 

So it’s actually about starting to find the confidence to explore those requests and those questions and those deadlines, so that you can then be someone that is seen as credible, can be relied upon as well. 

Because I think that happens a lot, and it happens to people with lots and lots of experience and people at the start of their careers as well. 

Zoe: And you’re right, I do think that’s something that is difficult for all of us. 

We probably don’t want to admit it, but for everybody having that ability to be able to say no to people. Yeah, it can be hard.  

Louse: It’s hard. But the benefit is knowing then that you will deliver on something or you won’t miss a deadline or miss delivering on something that they were then expecting of you because you said yes. 

And what does that do to your reputation? 

So it’s hard in the moment, but longer term it’s going to build your reputation as someone that can be trusted. 

Zoe: Yeah, definitely. And so if our students are able to be able to start with that earlier on in their career, hopefully that’s going to put them in good stead as they do progress and move up and make it easier than it has been. 

For those of us who like to people please. 

Is there anything that you’d like to add to that then, Emily, about how they can have a good impression? 

Emily: I think, like we said, showing up consistently, putting themselves forward for things that you know out of your comfort zone, that can feel scary, but actually that can really help with your development. 

And it shows your team that you want to be there. You’re committed to it. You’re committed to your growth, asking inquisitive questions, not being afraid to set those boundaries and just showing that commitment. 

Consistently doing that every day, being that person that they know that they give you something it’s going to get done and it’s going to get done well. 

Zoe: Lovely. Is there anything else around professional ethics and trust that you think is a key message to be able to share with our listeners, whether they’re our members or our students that you think you’d like to get across today? 

Louise: I was going to say, I’m not an accountant, so I cannot speak to your code of ethics, your experience through from a non-financial point of view. 

We actually have this phrase in coaching, which is called contracting, which is understanding and exploring and agreeing with the other person in the in the coaching relationship with the other person in the coaching relationship with you, how are we going to act towards each other? 

What’s our respectful mutual behaviour going to be? How are we going to agree how we work together and what good progress kind of looks like? That’s called the contracting process. 

And I think you can apply that to any profession, any workplace, any job. 

Think about your relationships at work in that way. What can this person expect from me? What do they have a right to expect from me? And in return, what do I have a right to expect from them in terms of, again, mutual respect, open communication, doing what we say we will do all of these markers for trust. 

You can start, as Emily said, you can start thinking about that whatever stage of the journey you are at. 

Zoe: Fantastic. I think that’s a lovely approach and some great practical advice to give it to our listeners. 

Talking about consistency, when is it important then to start building that? You’ve kind of you’ve mentioned it now, but just to reaffirm what it is that you’ve said when it comes to building credibility, when do you need to start with that consistent approach? 

Louise: Never a better time than right now, right? 

So yes, whatever stage you are at, start thinking about it as building relationship and professional capital for your future. 

Because as we talked about earlier, sadly, trust is at very low levels. We don’t have a lot of trust in our organisations, in our political organisations, in the people that that lead them. 

So if you are going to be someone that wants a meaningful career, you do have an opportunity to shape trust for yourself with other people. 

As an individual, you can make a choice to say, no, I want to be someone that has that trust from other people, and you can start that right now. 

Zoe: Yeah, now you are someone who’s had a very meaningful career. You’ve worked with so many different organisations, you’ve worked in corporate, you’ve done so much. 

Can you give us an example of a time when you’ve worked with a team and you’ve had a really strong trust built within that team that you can share with us? 

Louise: I can, so I used to work in the National Health Service in England, very, very challenging circumstances. 

I was a director on the board, and even though the circumstances were so challenging, and sometimes often life and death circumstances that we were dealing with, we had so much trust as an executive team, partly because the stakes were so very high. 

So you had to trust each other to make really big calls and really big decisions, but also partly because we did a lot of work as a team to think about and then role model to each other, what trust looked like, open communication. 

But that doesn’t mean just saying what you think someone else wants to hear. It’s also the ability to challenge somebody respectfully, constructively. If you actually have a different point of view, that might lead to a better decision for the organisation. 

Doing what you say you will do, even when you know things are busy and all this kind of stuff is happening. Getting to know each other and understanding each other is a real kind of foundational trust behaviour because as we’ve said, we are all human beings. 

So we need to understand in our colleagues, in the people we work with, well, what drives you, what motivates you, what actually might put you under stress? 

Like how do you behave when you’re under stress or under pressure? Because everybody’s different. So the more that you can understand each other, the more that trust can grow in that environment.  

So it was a really incredibly challenging, very rewarding role. But as a team, we had worked so hard to build that trust. And we did have to make some very, very difficult decisions. But we were able to make them together, knowing that we had each other’s back and that collectively it was the right thing to do. 

Zoe: Now that’s a fantastic example. 

And based off that, you were able to experience and have, have you used that when you’ve gone into your leadership coaches and you’re helping other people? 

And has that made a difference when you’ve kind of shared that experience with other teams?  

Louise: It has. There is a coaching model called the Five Dysfunctions of Teams, and it’s a pyramid model. 

So right at the bottom of this pyramid, it’s the broadest, it’s the base, the foundation. The biggest dysfunction of a team is lack of trust. So if you don’t have trust you will not have a high performing team. 

And that’s a model that has been proven. So that is one of the things I talk about and coach is, if you’re a leader, it’s your responsibility to instill and nurture trust in you and with your team. 

If you want a high performing team and of course you do, because that’s how you’re measured as a leader, that’s your success metric: is my team high performing for this organisation? 

Zoe: It’s just so vital. 

Louise: Yeah. You can’t do anything without it. 

Zoe: And Emily, for you, is there anything that you’ve been part of, whether it’s in the world of finance or any other roles and teams that you’ve been part of, where you’ve had a really strong trust that’s helped you and supported the team outputs? 

Emily: I think the team that I work with now is a really strong team. We’re quite a small team and we’re all very open with each other. 

They’ve created a really safe space for me to learn and to ask questions, and I know now I trust them. I can go to them with what might feel like a silly question, and I’m not going to get laughed out of the room. I’m going to get that proper connection and yeah, we’re quite open. 

I think, Louise said, it’s really important. We’ve got an understanding of someone comes into the office and they’re maybe not at 100% that day, you know, just how to how to lift each other up a bit. And that comes from just being very open and honest and definitely a safe space to be, which is good. 

Zoe: I think that’s lovely. And I think that’s something, again, all our listeners can take away from because whether they’re in a team working in accounting and finance where they’ve got younger new trainees, people that have just started their financial career. 

It’s making sure they have the opportunity to feel like they’ve got a safe space to make mistakes, to come and ask those silly questions. 

And Louise, from you, how do you see that being able to help? 

Do you give advice for people about how it’s going to help their progression? 

Louise: Yeah, I always talk about putting your values first and letting those values be the thing that speak the loudest about you, basically. So if you are somebody that prizes integrity and honesty, then those should be the things that people understand about you, because you should be behaving in that way. 

So think about, as Emily said, think about what your values are. How am I going to show these through those micro behaviours, those everyday moments in order to help build trust? 

And I think when it comes to professional development, you know, there are lots of people – and I’ve seen this in my own career, I see it in the people I coach –  who work incredibly hard, but they don’t always get the professional development opportunities that perhaps they deserve. 

But there is part of it lies in you being able to build trusted, credible relationships with the people actually who are invested in your development. 

So you can then be open with them about the fact that I would like to develop so that they can spot opportunities for you because you’ve worked on that relationship side. 

So working hard is obviously important, but it’s not everything you need to build your relationship capital at work. It is vital. And trust is one of the only ways you’re going to do that. 

Zoe: Yeah, I think you talk quite a lot about it. It’s not just about being busy, is it? It’s about the impact that you have and then the value. 

Louise: I say that as a woman who used to be far too busy. A lot of women are far too busy, but you’ve got to work on the right things, and you’ve got to work on your relationships at the same time. 

Zoe: Definitely, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us. 

We’re going to come to a part now where it’s going to be a quick fire round. And I’m going to ask you some questions. It’s myth or reality, so you just have to tell me whether you think it’s a myth or reality. 

Louise: This could be career ending for me if I get this wrong now. 

Zoe:  There’s no right or not. That is just your opinion in the moment. And so we could have a split decision, you know, who knows. 

So: managers are the only people responsible for creating trust: myth or reality? 

Emily and Louise: Myth 

Zoe: Lovely. See, these are easy questions. These are much easier than the other ones. 

Trust, once broken, can never be rebuilt. 

Louise: No, it’s a myth. Yeah. 

Zoe: Avoiding conflict helps build trust. 

Louise: No. 

Zoe: So what would you say to someone? Because, you know, none of us like conflict particularly. We don’t go out to try and create it. 

What kind of advice would you give to somebody who knows there’s things not quite right, particularly, when we’re talking about accountants, where somebody is maybe not doing something quite that they need, that they know should be done or processed in the right way. But actually having to challenge that, you know, is going to create conflict. 

Do I just avoid it? What would you say to somebody who is in that position? 

Emily: I think as long as it’s handled professionally. I don’t think you can go through your whole career never kind of disagreeing with someone that’s probably not healthy, like recognising that both points are probably valid. 

But the best way through is to be professional. Deal with it as a discussion and come to a hopefully a good outcome, but probably not shying away from it, you would just end up feeling resentful and that trust is then broken between you and it’s hard to recover from. 

Zoe: Yeah, that’s good advice. 

Louise: It’s quite tempting to avoid conflict because I mean, it’s inherent in the word conflict. You don’t want it. Nobody wants to have difficult conversations. But I always ask my clients to think about the opportunity cost of not having that difficult conversation. 

It might be easier in the short term for you not to have that conversation, because it feels a bit nicer and it means you can still be friendly. All that kind of stuff. 

The opportunity cost might be that either an individual or a team, or the organisation continues to do something that’s either not quite right or could be better. 

So that’s the opportunity cost is: how could these things be better for us, for our clients, for our organisation? And hopefully that then gives you the motivation to have that conversation openly, professionally, constructively. But to have it because there is a benefit to doing so. 

Zoe: Perfect. Thank you very much. 

So before we wrap up, is there anything about this topic that you’d like to share? Anything we haven’t had a chance to cover? A question I didn’t ask or anything else that you think is really important to be able to share with us about the topic of trust and how it can be built and maintained? 

Emily: I think…so it’s funny how the algorithm works.  

I was asked to do this podcast and then the next day social served me a video of, I think it’s Doctor Brené Brown talking about the marble jar theory. I don’t know if you’ve if you know it.  

Louise: Love Brené Brown yeah. 

Emily: And I think that just demonstrates just it’s trust isn’t built in those big moments. It’s in the little showing up consistently putting those marbles in the jar. 

And then when you need to turn to someone to trust with something big, or you look for whoever’s got the full marble jar. So yeah, I think that just some summed it up beautifully. 

Zoe: Lovely. Thank you.  

And Louise, for you? Is there anything we’ve not covered that you think is a nugget of wisdom you’d like to share. 

Louise:  I think you can overcomplicate it. I think you can overcomplicate the idea of trust when actually what it is, is showing up as who you are, doing what you say you will do. And if you ever can’t do that, being honest about it. 

And that’s what we call being a good human being, that’s it. So just apply those principles to your working life.  

And I think in order to do that, you have to be able to view and treat colleagues, teams, managers, bosses with the same level of respect and care that you would treat your friends and family, or that you would like to be treated with yourself. 

That will ensure that you show up in a way that engenders trust with others because you are showing that’s something you value. 

So that’s what I would say as well, don’t overthink it, but try and think about these things in terms of what would I expect from a relationship, from someone I worked with. That’s what I’m going to give in return. 

Zoe: I think you’ve summarised it beautifully. 

So all that’s left for me to say is thank you both for joining me on Balancing ambition today. It’s been lovely having you here. 

It’s been lovely listening to your personal experiences, the things you’ve been able to share about advice and guidance you’ve been able to give, and also about hearing about your future ambitions. So thank you so much for joining us. 

And thank you to our listeners as well. 

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Harry Rogers is AAT Comment’s news writer.