Balancing ambition episode 2: full transcript

Read the full transcript of episode 2 of the Balancing ambition podcast below. To listen or watch this episode, click here.

Our host: Zoe Smith, AAT
Our guests: Ali Jaw, founder and director of Severn Accounting and part of the AAT Members Advisory Council, and John Toon, chartered accountant, speaker, consultant and investor.
Synopsis: AI can analyse data, automate tasks and produce answers in seconds. But it can’t replace the judgement, empathy, curiosity and real-world understanding that people bring to their work. Our guests discuss how accountancy careers are changing – and why developing your human skills could be one of the best ways to prepare.

Zoe: Today we’re talking about AI: certainly one of the hottest topics across every industry right now. But in this episode, we will be focusing specifically on the human skills that are becoming even more important as AI becomes more prominent in the workplace. Skills like communication, critical thinking to collaboration, adaptability, and professional judgment.

We’ll be exploring these skills people need to develop as technology continues to transform the world of work.

Now at the start of every episode, we always ask our guests if they can share with us one ambition: something that you are planning on wanting to do over the coming months.

That can be big or small, professional or personal. So, Ali, I’m going to come to you first. Is there anything that you have planned as your ambition for the next 12 months?

Ali: Pretty simple really, Zoe. Just keep growing and keep simplifying as much as possible. Helping clients understand the number at a very simple level rather than complicating it, because running a business is tough enough.

And so my overall aim for the next year or so is to keep growing deep learning, understanding how AI works even deeper, yes, but simplifying it for the client.

John: I think, you know, my main career ambition for the next six to 12 months…my role at HRB International as head of technology is really to help our firms mature and to adapt to the technology landscape that’s changing around them every day.

And so the big thing for us is around AI education, development and implementation and to get our firms from decision-making to operationalisation of these technologies and practices so that they can reap the benefits as we go forward.

Zoe: So back to our topic then, about human skills in an AI world. As you said, things are changing every day, at the moment, with AI, aren’t they. It’s something that’s constantly changing. How do you think that that is impacting on the way that we work in accountancy and finance?

John: I think for me, you know, the biggest challenge for I think for accountants, whether they’re in practice or in business, is you see that pace of change is accelerated so much.

And people are already struggling with the pace of change before AI came along in terms of like, what’s the best kind of technology to use in my business, how do I implement it, how do we make sure it’s successful?

And that’s kind of just exploded, you know, ten times, a hundred times, whatever the number might be.

So I think the challenge for firms and for people in organisations is really around not getting too bogged down and trying to keep on top of everything, because that’s going to be impossible, and really about trying to just sort of understand how these trends are changing, what’s going to stick, what’s not going to stay, and what’s going to pass us by. And then adapt to that and change.

I think the key thing for me, in terms of what skill you really need to embed in that, in your culture of an organisation, is around curiosity and being willing to see something new, try it out. If it doesn’t work, move on. If it does work, great, utilise it and accelerate its development.

Zoe: I think that’s a really great approach to have and a good attitude, isn’t it, about making sure that you can adapt to whatever comes.

Ali: Yeah, just like John, I think the change is quite rapid with AI and you can get bogged down on all the shiny topics that come in via AI, So it’s a case of, like John, just be curious, but also making sure that you understand what’s happening rather than just following the trend. Because the trend is here to stay; AI is here to stay.

It’s not going to take over the accountants’ world, but certainly the skills needed: it’s going to be very, very important in terms of being human, being able to make judgement calls, to see what’s right and what’s wrong – understanding basically – and to be able to communicate at that level because the change is rapid, but just stay grounded, understanding that AI is here to stay but it’s not going to take over the sector, as many people are alluding to.

But of course, you have to stay curious because, especially for us in our sector, in practice, clients are now, very, very savvy when it comes to AI.

So you have to be on top of your game. Of course, you cannot just spend all your time learning about  AI, but you must know what’s going on.

Zoe: It’s always been so important as accountants that, hasn’t it, to make sure that you keep your CPD up to date, you stay up to date about the accounting standards that are changing, regulation, tax changes, industry updates.

That’s always been something accountants have had to do. But it’s even more important now, isn’t it?

Ali: Absolutely, yeah. With CPD especially, I’m very happy actually, especially for us at AAT, that a lot of branches now in the bank network are actually picking up topics, AI topics, because it’s relevant at the moment; you can’t run away from it.

So, I’m very happy that we are helping and arming our members with the skills they need in this current day and the age of AI.

Zoe: And a little shout out then to our branches and our members. We want to encourage them to be attending those sessions, going to the branch events and making the most of those CPD events to be able to improve their knowledge and understanding of AI.

Ali: So I mean, like the branches events for me, as a member, and the value they provide.

I just wish that more of our members are aware of what’s happening there, because just come and attend a branch meeting, take up a role maybe event, like you would be amazed at what you can learn coming to the branches.

Zoe: And there’s nice events, you know. You go to Birmingham, they’ll give you chips as well! So that’s nice. So that’s good.

Coming back to the topic sorry, away from chips. So do you think that, because of the amount of AI that we have in the way that is impacting on the work that there’s it’s more valuable for accountants to make sure that they’re keeping their professional standards and ethics?

John: I mean, clearly the answer is yes, right? I mean, that’s fundamental to trust in our industry is having a level of professional standards, a level of ethics, in terms of you making sure that, you know, when you’re providing advice to, to clients, that it’s reasonable and you can back it up with something.

I think we’re all aware of some of the horror stories that we’ve seen over the last few years in terms of, you know, people providing poor tax, particularly around things like R&D and employment, expenses and stuff like that. And so, you know, I think it’s paramount, really, to do that.

I think the challenge, as well, is also that we’ve seen as a consequence of AI, is that we’ve also seen some poor headlines where firms have – not just in the accounting profession, but in legal profession and other places – have relied on AI and not done their normal due diligence in terms of like checking and reviewing the data and information again before they send it out, which is just frankly, embarrassing, really.

Clearly, it’s here to stay. I think, you know, there are elements where you can also then potentially use AI to supplement that, to help with your professional judgment, to help with your review of data and information.

And I actually think, in the same way that we kind of saw cloud accounting kind of be a bit of a superpower for smaller firms and smaller bookkeeping practices to broaden their horizons in terms of the amount of work they can do.

AI does almost the same for firms in terms of, you suddenly can get access to a whole bunch of additional information and knowledge, you can potentially then branch out into providing more specialist advice.

The risk, of course, and it kind of goes back to the CPD thing, is making sure that you are comfortable with what you are then providing to clients is reliable and reassuring.

Ali: When you say due diligence, you have to verify what’s happening, because as we were just talking about earlier, AI can be very confident, but confidently wrong as well. If you don’t do your due diligence, it might look right on the surface, but you have to be curious, as you touched on earlier.

And of course, ethics is going to be very, very important. As an example, in practice we cannot just, for instance, use client data and just dump it on the AI tool, because you haven’t got the client’s consent to do that.

Overall, GDPR, as well, is very important to make sure that you are following those rules.

And as an accountant that professional scepticism has to happen because otherwise you might just lead yourself to the wrong path and it can be very dangerous.

So yes, due diligence and be curious, making sure that whatever you put out there is actually ethically right but also professional scepticism, know that you are regulated by a professional body like the AAT. And you want to make sure that you don’t break them rules.

Zoe: Yes. Don’t upset AAT!

So what would you say are the main qualities and experiences that AI can’t replicate?

Ali: For me personally, I think it’s judgment, to be able to read the room. Emotions, like where we’re sitting here, you’re smiling and talking. AI can never do that, in my view, even if they make robots, yeah, they couldn’t do that.

That’s the one skill, the human skill that I think is here to stay, and to be able to make judgement: to be able to see a scenario and then decipher the scenario and also make sure that you can make a judgement based on the scenario.

AI will give you the results but as an accountant you still have to have that skill to be able to make the decision or help business owners to make the decisions.

Zoe: Yeah, because the clients, that’s what they want, don’t they? They want somebody to be able to help them look at the data make…yeah, what does it mean to them. And they still need that human touch.

John: The judgement is really the key bit of what sets us apart as professionals as well. And that sets us apart from anyone else that wants to pretend to be an accountant, but hasn’t gone through the process of getting there and keeping up their CPD.

Yeah, I think I will play devil’s advocate a little bit here, and I will say that I think potentially in the future we’ll start to see more of the models being able to perform some kind of judgmental type decision-making.

And, you know, they’ll be able to learn from the inputs that we’re providing them already as we continue to use these tools. So there is a bit of a risk there.

I guess to maybe to extend the point about, we’re here in the room, sitting around having a conversation.

You know, you’re absolutely right, AI cannot replicate that and I think the key thing for us is, for business leaders and people going forward, is to figure out what is it that clients want from us, what is it that people that we work with want from us?

Because I do think we’ll probably see a more stratified approach to the way that we deal with clients, you know, and I don’t want to kind of split us across age boundaries, but that’s the typical way that you do it.

And you might find that your older clients, might want to continue to have that face-to-face, being able to pick up the phone and being able to come into the office and have a meeting.

Whereas younger clients may well get to a point where actually, you know, they’ve grown up with these models around them.

You hear stories about people having relationships with some of these models as well, getting like personal advice from them and stuff. So they do place a great reliance, I would say, on the outputs of these things, whether they’re reliable or not is a separate question.

But that does mean that maybe as businesses, we need to think about the way that we approach future customers because they may not value the personal relationship in the same way that maybe the current cohort of clients do.

Zoe: Yeah, because there definitely is going to be a different expectation of clients, isn’t there, of things that they’re going to be asking for? So, it’s making sure that we’re aware they’re going to want information faster.

They’re going to want to have something straight away to take into a boardroom that you just need to be able to provide.

But it’s about getting that information that can be generated quickly. But then putting the reasoning, the thoughts, that professional judgment behind it in that way.

Ali: Which is really important, that you explain it to them, in the level that they stand to make the decisions.

I think, John, you’re right, I mean, like the Gen Z as they call them might be actually in that bracket. So perhaps those ones wouldn’t necessarily have to come to see you face to face. But I still think, in business, you do business with people, in my view.

I mean there’s a saying that you deal with people you know, like and trust.

So for me, having that personal relationship is still very, very relevant, I think. Yes, and I still think as we go into the future, is still going to be relevant.

Zoe: Definitely, that human touch is really important.

But do you think the AI is making accountancy more of an exciting career for things that are coming through?

John: I mean, I think for sure. Maybe it’s because I’m more of a technologist as well, but I think our world of accounting has never been more disrupted than it is at this moment.

And, you know, that just means that the opportunities are just exploding exponentially almost, in terms of the kind of traditional accounting training is changing, the way that you absorb and collect knowledge is changing, the way that you disseminate that out to clients and to share that, all of that is changing.

Our communication channels are changing. There’s a myriad of stuff this is happening out there.

And, you know, as I said, I kind of work for a global organisation. I do also think that the world is getting smaller.

I know it’s a kind of a cliché, but it does mean that we’re not just operating solely in the UK anymore; having competition from within the UK, there is potentially competition from outside of that, whether it’s competition for talent, competition for clients and businesses and those kinds of opportunities.

So, I just think there’s immense opportunity if you’re curious, relatively intelligent individual out there wanting to get into a business that is fascinating, where you get to deal with different types of organisations and different types of people all the time, plus have a whole bunch of challenges thrown at you almost daily, then there isn’t a better place to be.

Ali: I couldn’t agree more, I think it is an exciting time in the profession, certainly, as accountants, because the days of, number crunching and, you know, bogged down in a spreadsheet and all that stuff, the manual work, is actually being taken over by the AI.

So, therefore we have more time now, to be able to focus on that strategic level, where you can actually make more of an impact for the business owners hopefully.

Giving them the right information, the right advice, to steer them to the right direction to make the right decisions. It’s super exciting at the moment.

John: I think also we see that firms of businesses are increasingly stratified as well, across this breadth of not just technology adoption but kind of business maturity, operational maturity, the way that they go to market with their customers and clients and stuff.

That in itself presents a huge opportunity for people to get in there and start making a change.

I think the ability for someone even at a very junior level in an organisation, whether it’s a practice or a business, to make an impact and make a significant change.

It’s like unbounded almost because you come in and say “hey, I’ve used ChatGPT, or Claude, or Copilot, to do this” and suddenly accelerate the way that business operates.

Ali: That’s super right. Just to give an example about the junior, like we said recently, we’re very AI savvy or tech savvy, I would say, the client in the construction sector.

He had to go to the client’s site and we say: “you just need to go to the client site and make sure you study all their processes”. The lad goes in, comes back.

By the time he comes back to the office, within a couple of hours, he was able to reinvent, really, to be honest, how the client works in terms of their processes and systems, and design brand new systems.

And up till today – and this happened about a couple of weeks ago – the client still couldn’t believe it that there was this speed. It’s done and it’s a very genuine level.

That person, maybe a few years ago, would have been still in his PC or on a spreadsheet all day.

So that tells you where the sector is moving: even very junior roles are having that strategic opportunity to make them a massive, massive change for a business.

Zoe: Definitely. And I think our AAT qualifications are still teaching the basics because they need to know, they need to understand what’s happening.

But whilst we’re teaching them how to do a bank reconciliation, our juniors don’t have to do that anymore because they’re being done, which gives them the opportunity to then go, and as you said, have an impact.

Now they know what’s happening; errors are being picked up and things like that, but actually their time then can be spent supporting clients, having more of an impact and also seeing things differently of how they can make improvements and put forward recommendations.

Ali: AI, in my view – I mean John would probably disagree – but for the time being at least, you have to be able to make that judgement call.

Zoe: So has AI changed the way that you work and your approach to your career?

Ali: Wow. Yeah, it has changed it massively. It has made us work faster, I would say, in terms of producing results that we need. It has helped us to come away from the daily, mundane task of, things that would take a long, long time to do.

Now AI has freed up time, so therefore allowing us, in practice, to be able to focus on that strategic level to be able to have the client say what these numbers actually mean.

Why is that profit and loss down, and what makes it go down? Don’t just say, oh, for instance, we’ve seen gross profit is down 15%, but why. Is it because there’s no demand, for instance, or is it because cost has gone up, and what’s the reason for that.

You need to be able to dig deeper, hence be able to give the client the information so that they can make the right decision.

Zoe: And that’s what we’ve evolved and developed into our qualifications.

It’s about the fact that you’re picking up what’s happened, but not just saying this is the bottom line, but it’s why. What does that mean? What now do you need to do with that? What’s your recommendation?

Ali: Absolutely yeah, the accountant of the future. The advisory, the strategy and asking the right questions are the future.

Zoe: John, for you. How has it changed the way that you approach your job?

John: It certainly has helped me because my role has changed. You know, I was in a practice role, being a traditional accountant if you like, and then over time pivoted more into a technology role.

I think, ironically for me, the part of using AI, particularly like LLMs in the last 18 to 24 months, has meant that I probably actually work harder for longer.

I’m certainly not finding I’ve got a bunch of free time. I spend time advising businesses on finance or the firms I work with.

But I think that’s the reality, it has made us super efficient. But actually, I think we’re gluttons for punishment in the accounting sector, in terms of like, just because we realise an efficiency savings doesn’t mean that we necessarily go home early.

I actually find we have some of the stuff that we can do now, like, really like unbelievably invigorating.

It’s super exciting to play around with vibe coding tools. It’s really cool to play around with agents and see what the outcomes are, even if sometimes they’re complete rubbish.

So, my level of interest, if you like, and my level of engagement is probably at its highest for, for a long time, in terms of my willingness to experiment. And I’ve got the time and the opportunity to do that, which is great as well.

I think in terms of what it is doing and fundamental changes, for me, is it allows me to spread myself even more thinly, which is not a great thing sometimes.

But it does allow me to, to do more. But that’s with the sort of self-braking concept to be sure, that if I start to go down a path where I’m not an expert, that I make sure that I’m doing something within a set of boundaries.

It’s a little bit like when you go bowling and you put the guards up in the gutter. Just to make sure that, you know, I’m going down the right path.

So, I probably spend even more time doing research on certain things and I used to do historically, because all of a sudden my world is become even more expansive in terms of the possibilities, the capabilities that I have.

Zoe: On behalf of your family, I’m going to suggest a little bit of self-discipline and give yourself more time back. You want that work life balance, you know?

John: My daughter goes nuts because she’s like, I can’t believe you’re still working at like nine o’clock, ten o’clock at night.

Ali: I’m the same, every day all day. Especially that now I’m working from home a lot.

Going back to the question, I think that accountants, or at least professionals of the future, are not the ones that give the right answers or the best answers but the one that asks the best questions. Because it’s all about having that ‘why’.

John: I think you actually see this, and I do a lot of training for accounting firms on how to use the LLMs at the moment, and I quite often talk to them and say if you’re a really good manager, if you’re really good people manager, you’ll actually be a really good user of LLMs.

Because number one is, when you give a human being a junior member of staff in your team instructions, if you’re not giving them clear instructions, if you don’t give them context, if you’re not giving them clarity, if you’re not telling them what’s the expected outputs, then you’re going to get rubbish. It’s the same with LLMs.

Someone described an LLM to me as a toddler with all of the world’s knowledge in its brain. Right? And so, I do think that concept of asking questions and being able to frame things really particularly is really important.

And again, for me, in terms of how I’m using it, I’m almost using AI as like a bit of a sparring partner. It’s almost like this conversation. I’ll pitch something into it.

You’ll ask a question, you’ll get a response back and then I’m challenging that. Is that right? Should we go down this way, that way.

The interesting thing about using different models is they kind of challenge you in different ways. They push you down paths in different ways.

I find ChatGPT irritating for this because it’s always asking follow-up questions and never quite answering my questions.

Ali: It’s going to the be same as I think we have in the accountancy space where you have Xero lovers, you’ve got the QuickBooks lovers, that’s going to split people.

Zoe: There’s clearly different opinions for lots of different people.

John: We’ll all just be wearing different badges!

Zoe: But do you think that AI is going to widen the skills gap between employees or is it going to narrow it. Which way is it going to go?

Ali: For me personally, I think it depends. For those that are not being trained, or at least given the opportunity to train, and those that have been given the opportunity to train, I do believe it can happen.

But if there’s a level playing field and training is offered to everyone, then I think it would go the other way and actually close the gap.

So, it’s all down to the leaders of any business or organisation to give the people, to empower them, to five them the right training that they need.

Zoe: I think that’s a really good point. And I think that then off the back of that, it’s the recommendation, isn’t it?

That’s what employers need to be making sure that they do.

So that they haven’t got the widening of the gap but they’re giving people that equal playing field to be able to have that training.

Ali: There’s a risk that, because it’s moving so fast, this AI world, within a week or two, you know, or a month perhaps, you know, if you are not up to speed, you could potentially be left behind.

You need the right training and that curious mind.

John: I think that that skill question is interesting, because I mean, it’s like what skills are we talking about in terms of like what’s going to get widened and what’s going to get narrowed?

You know, just learning how to use AI is a skill in itself, and I do think there’s a huge gap at the moment.

We’re seeing some people and firms and businesses who are right at the bleeding edge or the cutting edge doing just mind-blowing things in some instances – sometimes doing complete, complete rubbish as well.

But then we’ve got other firms and other people in the accounting segment who just have their head in the sand, just hoping it passes them by and never comes to fruition.

Zoe: That gap is going to get bigger than is it for those individuals.

John: We were talking about this before we came on the pod and saying, is that a fundamental strategic risk in terms of, you know, if you get so far behind, will firms ever be able to close the gap? And we just don’t know.

I mean, we kind of anticipated this ten, 15 years ago with cloud. And yet we kind of resolved around the fact that most firms have been able to catch up and move up.

And the firms that have accelerated right in front slowed down and kind of slowed down and stuff. So, it’s so difficult to predict.

But one of the things I would say more fundamentally, though, about broad accounting skills in general is in the same way that anyone can now pick up an LLM and start to vibe code something, both really well and really badly, you know, you can also learn skills from an LLM.

So, you could potentially learn how to do double entry bookkeeping, you could potentially learn how to do a bank reconciliation.

And so I guess the question then is what value do we put on those skills in terms of who should you learn them from? How do you learn them?

Is this just an alternative learning method, which is really helpful to some people because some people hate to study and do exams and being a classroom and everything else.

And then how do practices and how do businesses embrace that as an alternative way of learning?

I’m a big believer of you’re not just having one single platform to learn a skill and not just having you have someone come in and lecture you, for example, or someone do a webinar, you know, or have on-demand learning, but having multiple ways of doing that because everyone learns different ways.

Ali: I agree with you, John, at that point.

But I also I think we have, especially with firms though, I believe if you have the opportunity, but without the structure, people can just do whatever they want.

You have to make sure that as well as you give them the tools to learn, it’s controlled in terms of what, what they can put out, especially to clients.

There must still be an oversight or somebody that always make sure that everything is vetted before it leaves the farm.

Because while the tools are great, if used in the wrong way, it can be very, very dangerous as well.

I think organisations making a level playing field, giving every opportunity to all available people is going to be very relevant for every staff.

You have the tendency of course from some people having the training and some don’t. And those that don’t have any training as a potential they could be left behind.

John: I actually think that’s what you’ve nailed down. One of the big mistakes I’m seeing firms all around the world doing when it comes to AI implementation. They’re either making one of two mistakes.

Number one is there just not making a decision on moving forward, and they’re getting hung up on what’s the best model to use or what’s the best solution to use?

It’s a little bit like we were laughing about people wearing the different badges and you’re on Xero, QuickBooks, Sage, FreeAgent, etc. etc. etc. like what’s the best general ledger out there? They’re all the same, you know?

Yeah, I know that’s going to upset a lot of people but they are fundamentally all the same, they do the same thing.

It’s just a matter of like, do you prefer how you log into one versus the other? Is one more suitable to your to your clients or to your business? And that’s the fundamental reality about it.

Ali: For me obviously, it’s value for money, John.

John: But when it comes to choosing a model, like, choose one. We’ve no idea. We can’t predict whether any one of these models is going to outlast the other, whether it’s better than the other because it’s an arms race. You know, one’s better than another this week, next week on a different one.

So, there’s no point in hanging on and waiting to see what’s going on with this battle because we just don’t know when it’s going to end.

And then the other thing is like, once you’ve made that decision and you’ve got a product in your practice or in your business, what I’m also seeing is like, we just we just give it to the young kids. “Young kids like technology. So we’ll give it to a bunch of kids in the department or whatever, and we’ll let them experiment with it.”

But we won’t give them and support, we won’t give them any training, and we won’t really give them any ability carving out the opportunities that they’re creating, we won’t give them any guidance…

Zoe: I guess this is where it comes back to employers making sure that they do the correct training for their employees, to make sure that they are that using it properly.

John: But that training is difficult to access when it comes to AI, because there isn’t a broad amount of training out there.

And so I think this is where firms are struggle where that the context of how you get out there, how you get that training, is difficult.

But what I would say is all of the LLMs have free training available to them. They all will teach you how to do prompts, how to use the functionality of those products so you don’t have to pay for training.

But obviously you then have to allow people the time and the space to do the training and absorb the knowledge.

Zoe: So, we’re going to move on to our quickfire round: myth or reality.

I’m going to say a statement and I’d like to hear myth or reality. Probably it’s going to split the room, but let’s see.

So, AI is going to make human skills less important in the workplace. Myth or reality?

Ali: Myth.

John: Reality.

Zoe: Oh, I knew I’d split the room. But we’ve heard your views, so we’re going to move on.

So, AI will eliminate more jobs in accountancy than it’s going to create. Myth or reality.

Ali: Myth.

John: Myth.

Zoe: Good. I’m pleased we both agree on that. That’s a good one. So many opportunities are going to be out there, isn’t it? It’s about the way we adapt.

Ali: And give people to grow as well. Understanding business at a deeper level. AI is going to give us the freedom…

Zoe: …to make those strategic decisions.

Last one then: the future of work is humans and AI collaborating, not competing. Myth or reality.

Ali: A reality, in my view.

John: Mmmm…

Zoe: You’re going to say we’re going to be competing and fighting against AI?

John: I mean, I think it goes back to the other question, which was is there a future for accountants in this world?

Yes, absolutely there is but I do genuinely think AI is already starting to replace specific tasks.

And technology broadly has replaced specific tasks in the accounting space.

You think about accounts payable clerks, right? Do you have an accounting role or a job role, for accounts payable clerk anymore?

I mean, it’s like a unicorn. You don’t see them very often anymore because they have been replaced by technology

Ali: But they’re doing more exciting stuff nowadays.

John: But I think that particular role has disappeared but that particular person who might have been doing that role is now doing something else, potentially.

There is, the biggest challenge I think, particularly in accounting practice, probably less so in business, is we have a bunch of firms that are really good at delivering compliance.

And the likelihood that in the future, for many, many firms, compliance is going to become even more automated, as a consequence of AI. 

And that’s also probably going to have an impact on price. So, the margins for practices is going to start to fall.

So, the challenge for practice is to figure out like how do I how do I get ahead of that? How do I anticipate that? How do I pivot? How do I train my staff to do the other stuff that we’ve been talking about?

And also, potentially, how do I make those difficult choices if maybe some of those staff aren’t going to be capable of changing into those new roles and stuff.

I think that’s a big challenge. So I’m not I’m not a pessimist about the accounting segment, per se, as a consequence of AI, but I do think that over the next few years, we’re going to see AI challenging particular roles and particular jobs and certainly tasks that we kind of just take is bread and butter.

But what we’ll start to see is a pivot away from that, but it’s going to be fascinating to see how the broader accounting industry moves with that.

And the timelines is the great unknown of this. We can say it’s all going to disappear in two years, or it could be ten years, like we just fundamentally don’t know.

Ali: I mean, I do believe, though, perhaps, maybe it’s going to be good for both, in terms of how we work.

I think it’s a collaborative effort rather than us against AI, in my view, because I think AI are tools and it’s for us accountants, human accountants to use those tools to be able to actually make things even better, and the strategic level.

Because as we said earlier, there are certain traits that AI don’t have that humans have, and that’s our advantage as well. 

Zoe: Coming back to your lovely trainee that went out and made a difference, that impact that they had, AI couldn’t go in and do that in the same way.

Ali: That’s right, AI couldn’t go and see how people are doing this, unless you have a Elon Musk who knows maybe design one one day but for now at least AI couldn’t go to a factory and see how things are working and then be able to design something to help them get even better.

So, in that respect, I think those roles – you are right, some of the roles will go, but the generals will just move to a different role.

Zoe: New opportunities.

John: I think that’s the thing, it’s incumbent on accounting business leaders to make sure that change happens and not to just put your head in the sand and pretend that nothing’s going on because otherwise, you know, you’re going to be left behind.

It’s it a great place to be as well? You know, we were talking about recruitment before, isn’t it a great place to be if you can sort of say, look, we’re a real modern practice or a modern business trying to take advantage of this AI world.

We might not get everything right, but what we’re at least trying to do is experiment and move forward and to keep pace with the change that is happening around us, and hopefully then deliver that out in terms of like, good quality client service.

Zoe: Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, your future ambitions and your advice. And thank you to our listeners too, for joining us today.

Ali: Thanks for having us as a thank you so much for having us.

John: Yeah, it’s been a pleasure.

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Harry Rogers is AAT Comment’s news writer.